Roger

Hi Shanti,

I have to check – I recommended this to a clinic and they were planning to implement EDTA chelation prior to high dose Vit C.
Indeed, there are pros and cons regarding the use of iron prior to high dose Vit C or Arte like treatments. If we are not totally convince about one or the other way, we can also consider alternating the opposite approaches, e.g. one month take one approach and the other month switch to the other one.
Iron is a key subject in cancer. As soon as I find more time I would like to focus on Iron in cancer and it’s manipulation – I did that in the past but I feel I should consolidate the info on this subject.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Hi Shanti,

我需要核实一下 - 我向一家诊所推荐过这种方法，他们计划在高剂量维生素C注射前实施EDTA螯合疗法。

确实，关于在高剂量维生素C或青蒿素治疗前使用铁有利有弊。如果我们对其中一种方式还不完全确定，我们也可以考虑交替采用相反的方法，例如，一个月采用一种方法，另一个月换成另一种方法。

铁在癌症中是一个关键的主题。一旦我有更多时间，我想把重点放在癌症中的铁及其调节上 - 我过去曾做过这方面的工作，但我觉得我应该整理一下这个主题的信息。

祝好，
丹尼尔

Hi D,
We use green tea and pectasol which have some iron-chelating properties, but may not be enough. My husband also fasts the day before the IVC and until after the therapy. Ozone is used about half-hour beforehand.

Have you used or spoken with anyone using Deferasirox or Desferal just prior to IVC and/or Artesunate? Tricky because we want the iron in the cancer cells, but not in the serum. As you know, some information indicates that iron administration timed correctly with artemisinin potentiates treatment.
Thanks again,
Shanti

Hi D,

你提到我们使用了一些具有一定螯合铁性能的绿茶和果胶，但可能不足以满足需求。我丈夫还在接受治疗前一天以及治疗过程中进行禁食。 臭氧疗法在治疗前大约半小时进行。

你是否与使用Deferasirox或Desferal的人交流过，这两种药物会在维生素C静脉注射和/或青蒿素注射前使用？这个问题有些棘手，因为我们希望铁进入癌细胞中，而不在血清中。正如你所知，一些信息表明，如果将铁的投放与青蒿素治疗正确地配合，可以增强治疗效果。

再次感谢你的帮助，
Shanti

Hi Shanti,

Please read my post on Vit C. I think it makes sense to consider the use of Iron chelators prior to such intervention.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Hi Shanti,

请阅读我关于维生素C的帖子。我认为在进行这种干预之前考虑使用铁螯合剂是有意义的。

亲切的问候，
丹尼尔

Hi Johan,

The “preliminary Bastyr data” probably came from statements made by Dr. Standish in her work with Artesunate and IVC at Bastyr: https://bastyr.edu/news/general-news-home-page/2013/12/integrative-oncology-study-draws-attention-promising-results, but I have not seen any formal data from them on the combo, except that it is incorporated into some of their protocols: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5736066/.

Dr. Paul Anderson discusses the synergy of IVC and artesunate and its mechanism here: https://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/journal/2017-11/intravenous-therapies-oncology-practice-conversation-paul-anderson-nmd he discusses a study he allegedly took part in where both were used together, but I can’t actually find the study. The same study is discussed here, with a graph, but I still haven’t actually located said study: http://www.alternativecancertreatment.ca/artesunate-edmonton.

This paper discusses co-administration of vitamin C and artesunate for malarial treatment: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4989825/. I think this quote gets to the crux of the issue, which is that vitamin C will likely protect against artesunate damage in its capacity as an antioxidant, but may potentiate it in its capacity as a pro-oxidant. This difference may also depend on the antioxidant reserves of the cancer cell.
“Ascorbic acid has antioxidant properties and is reported to mop up free radicals. Since malaria infection imposes tremendous oxidative stress on the host, the antimalarials are often prescribed with vitamin C or similar antioxidant supplements. The antioxidant effect in erythrocytes has been reported to depend upon the presence or absence of glutathione. In the presence of glutathione, ascorbic acid has synergistic antioxidant activity against haem-mediated cell toxicity. In glutathione deficient red cells, as often happens in parasitized RBCs due to oxidative stress, ascorbic acid can react with iron or iron-containing compounds to generate hydrogen peroxide or hydroxyl radical and accentuate the hemolytic mechanisms in malaria.”

After reading through Paul Anderson’s interview, it seems best to give the full Artesunate dose first and follow it up with the IVC. This is also consistent with the German clinic administration described by D. I can’t find any info on giving doses above approx 110mg as an IV injection so I’ll have to sell my husband on the pre-vitamin C artesunate drip.

Hi Shanti, thanks for the link to that article. Very interesting! Do you have more information on that study? Were any other treatments given alongside the ones mentioned? I’m asking because of this:

Bastyr Breast Cancer Study Supplements
No one “Bastyr protocol” exists, as researchers continue to investigate and refine approaches.
Supplements used in one Bastyr protocol for breast cancer:
IV artesunate
IV ascorbic acid (vitamin C)
Trametes versicolor (turkey tail mushroom)
Tetrathiomolybdate for copper chelation
Curcumin
Bromelain
Quercetin
Low-dose naltrexone

Best,
Johan

你好Shanti，感谢提供那篇文章的链接。非常有趣！你有关于那项研究的更多信息吗？除了提到的治疗方法外，还有其他治疗吗？我问这个问题是因为这个：

Bastyr乳腺癌研究的补充剂
并不存在一个“Bastyr协议”，因为研究人员继续研究和完善方法。
用于Bastyr乳腺癌协议的一种补充剂：
 静脉注射青蒿琥酯
IV抗坏血酸（维生素C）
铜螯合用的硫代硫酸钼
姬松茸
姜黄素
菠萝蛋白酶
槲皮素
低剂量纳曲酮

最好（的祝福），

Johan

Hi Johan,
Thank you for the link and this very important consideration. In the study cited, the “high dose” vitamin C of 8.5 mg/kg/ day given to the mice along with the Artemether calculates to an HED of 54mg/day for a 170lb person. I am hoping that the high-dose vit C we are using in IV (75g) will have a different combination dynamic than low dose, as the action of the vitamin C is now pro-oxidant rather than antioxidant. This is the theory with some potential preliminary evidence outlined here: http://yaletownnaturopathic.com/how-does-artesunate-kill-cancer/, but truth be told, I’m not sure we know. I suppose I could leave the port in my husband and do a push or second drip in the second half of the day after the C has cleared from his system.

你好Johan，

感谢提供链接和这个非常重要的考虑因素。在引用的研究中，与阿特米星一起给小鼠的“高剂量”维生素C为每日8.5毫克/千克，这对于一个170磅的人来说相当于每天54毫克。我希望我们正在使用的高剂量维生素C IV（75克）与低剂量的维生素C相比，会产生不同的组合动力学，因为维生素C的作用现在是促氧化剂而不是抗氧化剂。这是一种理论，有一些潜在的初步证据可以在这里找到：http://yaletownnaturopathic.com/how-does-artesunate-kill-cancer/，但实话实说，我不确定我们是否了解。我想我可以让我丈夫保留导管，在维生素C从他的系统中清除之后，进行第二次推注或第二次滴注。

祝好，

Shanti

静脉注射（英文：Intravenous therapy，常缩写为IV）

Hi Shanti,
FYI in treatment of malaria, there’s an antagonistic effect when both compounds are combined:
https://www.japsonline.com/admin/php/uploads/510_pdf.pdf
Best
Johan

你好Shanti，

关于治疗疟疾，当两种化合物结合在一起时存在对抗作用。你可以参考这篇文章：https://www.japsonline.com/admin/php/uploads/510_pdf.pdf

祝好，

Johan

Hi D,
I appreciate you sharing your experience, the details are important, so definitely not too much detail. 11 to 7 is a pretty big drop in hemoglobin so we will monitor it closely if we do this therapy. We won’t go above 110mg artesunate in a push, which is the dose suggested for IV push malarial treatment, if we go higher in dose I will use a drip. I’ll also re-read the IVC post with info on iron chelation. My husband’s serum iron and ferritin tend to be at the low end of normal already.
Warmly,
Shanti
PS This artemisia post is so comprehensive and useful, it is amazing to have this information pulled together in one place!

嗨 D，

我感谢你分享你的经验，细节很重要，所以绝对不会太多。从11下降到7是血红蛋白相当大的下降，所以如果我们进行这种疗法，我们会密切监测。如果我们使用更高剂量，我将使用滴注，我们不会超过110毫克的青蒿素。此剂量是用于治疗疟疾的静脉注射的建议剂量。我还会重新阅读关于铁螯合的IVC帖子。我丈夫的血清铁和铁蛋白通常已经处于正常范围的低端。

热情地，

Shanti

PS 这篇青蒿素文章内容丰富、实用，将这些信息集合在一起真是太神奇了！

Hi Shanti,

The drop in hemoglobin was gradual, from around 11 (normal range 11,9-14,6 g/dl) to around 7, during about one month (February to March 2014). After that we switched to DCA, Na Bic and Vitamin B17 (all intravenous) for 3 months and haemoglobin recovered so that in June 2014 was in a normal range, i.e. 13. I can not connect 100% the drop of hemoglobin with combo of Vit C and Arte, as there is one more point that I have to make: just after 2 months from surgery, in Jan 2014, there was a recurrence of about 4cm at the adrenal gland location. In June 2014, that became half (and latter was gone). Adrenal tumors are growing very fast, so another possibility is that the combo Vit C and Arte was not effective for us (and the drop of hemoglobin was due to fast growth of the tumor) and the next combo of DCA+B17+Na Bic was effective. However, because of the relative fast recovery of hemoglobin after switching to DCA+B17+Na Bic, I suspect it was Vit C +Arte too strong. Latter, we did Vit C and Arte but never combined and we never had this issue again.
I hope these are not too many details, and it helps.

I do not know anyone who did Arte bolus as you intend to do. If going for bolus, I would do it step by step, first with a smaller dose.

Kind regards,
Daniel

你好Shanti，

血红蛋白下降是逐渐的，从大约11（正常范围为11.9-14.6 g/dl）下降到约7，在大约一个月内（2014年2月至3月）。之后我们切换到DCA、Na Bic和维生素B17（全部静脉给药），进行了3个月的治疗，血红蛋白恢复到了正常范围，即13。我无法100%确定血红蛋白下降与维C和青蒿素的结合有关，因为我还有一个要点要说明：就在手术后的2个月后，即2014年1月，肾上腺位置复发了约4厘米的肿瘤。到了2014年6月，它变成了一半（后来完全消失了）。肾上腺肿瘤生长非常快，所以另一个可能性是维C和青蒿素对我们来说不起作用（血红蛋白下降是肿瘤快速生长的结果），而下一个组合的DCA+B17+Na Bic有效。但是，由于切换到DCA+B17+Na Bic后血红蛋白的相对快速恢复，我怀疑是维C+青蒿素太强了。后来，我们分别使用了维C和青蒿素，但从未结合使用，并且再也没有出现这个问题。

我不认识任何人进行过您打算进行的青蒿素注射。如果要进行注射，我建议先使用较小剂量。

祝一切顺利，

丹尼尔

Here is the info on IV push administration: https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/resources/pdf/artesunate/Artesunate_protocol_12_19_2016.pdf

以下是有关静脉推注给药的信息：https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/resources/pdf/artesunate/Artesunate_protocol_12_19_2016.pdf 

Hi D and All-
We would like to add some IV Artesunate to our weekly IVC. In a couple weeks my husband wants to do a week of daily IVC and I’d also like to use the IV Artesunate 3 times during that week. The suggested IV dose as documented by D is 300mg/day. I have access to 120mg Artesunate vials.

My question is this: I noticed that for malaria treatment the Artesunate is either given as an IM injection or as an IV push ( but for the IV it is not typically given at a dose of 300mg in a single push for someone of my husband’s weight). We prefer to do a push rather than add more time and fluid on to the already lengthy IVC. I’m thinking of pushing in half of it before the IVC and the other half after the IVC. Does anyone see any potential issues with this?

D, you have mentioned a drop in hemoglobin with artesunate/IVC combo, do you recall how much of a drop? My husbands tends to be just under or just over the normal range.

Thank you!

大家好，

我们想在每周的IVC治疗中加入一些IV Artesunate。在几周后，我丈夫希望进行一周的每日IVC治疗，而我也想在那一周中使用IV Artesunate进行3次治疗。根据D的建议，IV Artesunate的建议剂量为每天300毫克。我可以获得120毫克的Artesunate小瓶。

我的问题是这样的：我注意到对于疟疾治疗，Artesunate通常是作为肌肉注射或者静脉推注（但对于IV推注，不会单次推注300毫克的剂量给体重与我丈夫相当的人）。我们更倾向于进行推注，而不是为了给予已经很长的IVC治疗增加更多的时间和液体。我考虑在IVC之前推注一半，IVC之后再推注另一半。有人看到这种做法可能存在的问题吗？

D，你提到了使用artesunate/IVC组合可能会导致血红蛋白下降，你还记得下降的幅度吗？我丈夫的血红蛋白水平通常处于正常范围的下限或上限。

谢谢你们！

以上名词的翻译可能是 ：

IV Artesunate 静脉注射青蒿琥酯

 Intravenous Vitamin C    静脉注射维生素 C 

Very helpful Shanti! I could not have asked for a more clear explanation. Best wishes for your husband!

很有帮助，Shanti！我无法要求更清晰的解释了。祝你丈夫一切顺利！

Hi Kapil,
I know that I am not Daniel, but I also know he is traveling with limited availability, so I thought I would attempt to answer your question. You may find some of your answer here in Daniel’s earlier post: https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/artemisia-annua-its-extract-artemisinin/#comment-5396 and also in the “Mechanism” section of the blog post itself. Basically, you want to keep the artemisinin out of contact with iron in the circulation. If the artemisinin comes into contact with iron in the circulation, there will be a free radical burst, but the artemisinin will be destroyed in the process. You want this to happen inside of the cancer cell, not before. In Daniel’s earlier post, he states that he believes cancer cells likely have enough concentrated iron without the need to take iron, so taking an iron chelator would clear iron from circulation, allowing the artemisinin to reach the tumor.

Regarding TM, we almost used Tetrathiomolybdate(TM), and went as far as getting a prescription for it, but we opted not to use it at this time based on several factors related to my husband’s situation. TM depletes copper which is needed to produce RBCs and hemoglobin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_deficiency. It may have some impact on iron absorption but it is not reported to cause iron deficiency. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417757/. The anemia induced by TM is purely copper induced. That being said, those who have iron deficiency to the extent that it has lowered their RBC/hemoglobin count should correct it before starting TM. Those who have very low RBC/hemoglobin and/or WBCs as a result of cancer treatments may not be able to use TM since TM can drop WBC and RBC count even further. When people are using TM, ceruloplasmin and a complete blood count are used to monitor, if WBCs drop too low, the treatment is temporarily halted until they increase again.
I hope that helps!

你好 Kapil，

我知道我不是 Daniel，但我也知道他在旅途中，时间有限，所以我想尝试回答你的问题。你可能会在 Daniel 之前的帖子中找到一些答案：链接：https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/artemisia-annua-its-extract-artemisinin/#comment-5396 ，以及博客文章本身的“机制”部分。基本上，你希望将青蒿素与循环中的铁隔离开。如果青蒿素与循环中的铁接触，将会产生自由基爆发，但在过程中青蒿素将被破坏。你希望这种情况发生在癌细胞内部，而不是之前。在 Daniel 之前的帖子中，他提到他相信癌细胞很可能有足够的浓缩铁，因此不需要额外补充铁，因此服用铁螯合剂可以清除循环中的铁，使青蒿素能够到达肿瘤。

关于 TM，我们几乎使用了四硫化钼(TM)，甚至已经拿到了处方，但我们基于我丈夫情况相关的几个因素选择了暂时不使用。TM 会耗尽铜，而铜是生成红细胞和血红蛋白所需的：链接 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_deficiency   它可能对铁的吸收产生一些影响，但没有报道称其导致铁缺乏：链接：https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417757/   TM 引起的贫血纯粹是铜引起的。也就是说，如果有人因铁缺乏而导致红细胞/血红蛋白计数降低，那么在开始使用 TM 之前应该纠正这种情况。那些由于癌症治疗导致红细胞/血红蛋白和/或白细胞计数非常低的人可能无法使用 TM，因为 TM 可以进一步降低白细胞和红细胞计数。使用 TM 时，铜蓝蛋白和完整的血细胞计数被用于监测，如果白细胞计数过低，治疗会暂时停止，直到再次增加。 

希望这能帮到你！

Hi, most of the success stories with the use of ART I’ve read about either use no iron or take iron at the beginning of the treatment.
Here’s a study showing better anti-cancer potency for the ART+iron combination.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/be85/9d5230290fba9e5c408581362bb15dafb001.pdf

Hi Daniel,

As always this was an excellent article filled with lots of relevant info detailing all aspects of Artemisinia Annua. You mentioned that taking an Fe chelator prior to Artemisinin might be better to enhance efficacy of Artemisinin. WOuldn’t an Fe chelator be contra-indicated rather. May be I am missing something.

Also, are there any interactions with Tetrathiomolybdate (which is a well known Copper Chelator but as one of its side effects can also lower Haemoglobin which is linked to potential drop in Fe).

嗨，Daniel，

像往常一样，这是一篇充满了大量相关信息的优秀文章，详细介绍了青蒿素的各个方面。你提到在服用青蒿素之前服用铁螯合剂可能会更好地增强青蒿素的功效。但是，铁螯合剂是否不推荐使用？也许我漏掉了什么。

此外，青蒿素与四硫代钼酸盐是否有任何相互作用（四硫代钼酸盐是一种众所周知的铜螯合剂，但其副作用之一可能会降低血红蛋白，这与潜在的铁降低有关）。

Anyone has tried to use Artemisinin along with Gelum drops as it contains iron? This study shows enhancement of cytotoxicitiy of artemisinins towards cancer cells by ferrous iron https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891584904004940

有人尝试过将青蒿素与含铁的Gelum滴剂一起使用吗？这项研究显示了铁离子对青蒿素对癌细胞的细胞毒性增强效应。

Hello Katja ,

My son has recently diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer I’m unfortunately I can’t afford purshasing Artesunate for him.

Can you please donate the I.V. and the the Artesunate tablets for me ?

你好Katja，

我儿子最近被诊断患有胰腺癌，我很不幸不能负担购买Artesunate的费用。

你能否捐赠给我儿子注射用的Artesunate和Artesunate片剂？

Thank you so much for your kind offer to donate the Artesunate vials and the Hepalin capsules! If anyone is interested I will help them connect with you via e-mail. Kind regards, Daniel

非常感谢您慷慨捐赠青蒿素注射液和Hepalin胶囊！如果有人感兴趣，我会通过电子邮件帮助他们与您联系。谢谢，Daniel

Dear struggeling friends, as I developed a strong pancreatitis after a 14-day i.v. Treatement without a pause, I will give away for free my remaining artesunate-vials. Each 60mg. There are 54 left and 45 ampules with the needed sodium bicarbonate. The missing 9 can be bought easily in any pharmazie. Additionally there are 300 cpsules of Hepalin, 300 caps. Of Hepamether, 60 cps of Artemix and 120 caps. Of Hepamether bought from the above mentioned US-company http://www.hepalin.com all for free or giving a donation to the foundation here, would be grate. Hope, anyone can use it. Best whishes Katja

亲爱的朋友们，由于我在连续14天的静脉治疗后患上了严重的胰腺炎，我将免费赠送我剩下的青蒿素注射液。每瓶60毫克。剩下54瓶，还有45瓶所需的碳酸氢钠。另外缺失的9瓶可以在任何药房轻松购买到。此外，还有来自上述美国公司 http://www.hepalin.com 购买的300粒Hepalin胶囊，300粒Hepamether胶囊，60粒Artemix胶囊和120粒Hepamether胶囊，全部免费或者捐赠给这里的基金会，将不胜感激。希望有人能够用得到。最好的祝愿，Katja

Thanks a lot for your feedback, Shanti! Kind regards, Daniel

谢谢你的反馈，Shanti！祝一切顺利，Daniel

Hi Daniel- Excellent article! We used Artemisinin 500mg bid 1 week on and 1 week off for about 6 months and then stopped for 6 months. We are about to start it up again but will now change strategies to lower the Artemisinin dose and add in some of the whole plant. Thanks Again!

Shanti说：
你好Daniel- 很棒的文章！我们曾经使用青蒿素500毫克，每天两次，连续1周，然后停药1周，大约持续了6个月，然后停药了6个月。我们现在准备再次开始，但将改变策略，降低青蒿素剂量，并加入一些全草。再次感谢！

Hi, I do not think this is a problem. Just that Super Arte is expected to be more effective because of the extra components it has inside. In any case, next to the Artemisinin capsule I would also add a capsule containing the whole plant of Arte Annua (as discussed in the post above). Kind regards, Daniel

Daniel说：
你好，我认为这不是问题。只是超级青蒿素由于内含额外成分，预计会更有效。无论如何，在青蒿素胶囊旁边，我还会添加一个含有青蒿全草的胶囊（如上文所述）。祝好，Daniel

Dear Daniel,
what is the difference between artemisinin and super artemisinin?
My sister (breast cancer stage 4) used 60 capsules of super artemisinin 2x/day (Nutricology), then I wronged to order Super artemisinin and ordered Artemisinin.
I want to know, It’s not a problem to use Artemisinin instead of Super artemisinin?
thanks

Hi Daniel,

青蒿素和超级青蒿素之间有什么区别？
我姐姐（乳腺癌第四期）每天使用了60粒超级青蒿素胶囊2次（Nutricology），然后我错误地订购了超级青蒿素，我订购了青蒿素。
我想知道，使用青蒿素代替超级青蒿素是否有问题？
谢谢

Hi Immanuel,

It contains Sweet Wormwood (Leaves) oil in addition to Arte which I find it helpful. In order to understand more about Sweet Wormwood (Leaves) oil you may want to read this review article: Essential Oil of Artemisia annua L.: An Extraordinary Component with Numerous Antimicrobial Properties https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2014/159819/

There is a lot of research published on the bio-availability of Arte, e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4020007/
No it is not comparable with the IV form since that goes directly into the blood and will lead to higher plasma levels. I would use IV maybe 2-3 times/week for a few weeks cycle from time to time and during this time also the oral version. Or at least the days between the IV.

Kind regards,
Daniel

嗨，伊曼纽尔，

除了青蒿素外，它还含有甜蒿（叶子）油，我认为这很有帮助。为了更多地了解甜蒿（叶子）油，您可能想阅读这篇综述文章：《甜蒿（叶子）精油：具有众多抗菌特性的非凡成分》https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2014/159819/

关于青蒿素的生物利用度，已经有很多研究发表了，例如https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4020007/     

不，它与静脉注射形式不可比，因为那种方式可以直接进入血液，导致更高的血浆浓度。我建议使用静脉注射，也许每周2-3次，进行为期几周的循环治疗，并在此期间同时使用口服版本。或者至少在静脉注射之间的日子里使用口服版本。

亲切的问候，
丹尼尔

HI Nicole,

Indeed, I woudl clearly not take them together for the reasons you mentioned.

The other question is if it makes sense to take Iron supplements or not, since the cancer cells have already high amounts of iron. Some like the idea to use Iron in the Arte protocol, others not. I think that if we decided to take it, we better take it from foods instead of supplements.

Kind regards,
Daniel

嗨，尼科尔，

确实，出于你提到的原因，我肯定不会让它们一起服用。

另一个问题是是否有意义服用铁补充剂，因为癌细胞已经含有高浓度的铁。有些人喜欢在青蒿素方案中使用铁，而其他人则不喜欢。我认为，如果我们决定服用它，最好从食物中摄取而不是从补充剂中摄取。

亲切的问候，
丹尼尔